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Elinor Mills on Cnet last week asked the question "Want to 'converse' with advertisers?."

No, not really. Anyway not the way they seem to want to do it.

She covered the Conversational Marketing Summit, and came away feeling wary of the whole deal.

I can't help but view conversational marketing as a thinly veiled attempt by the ad industry to insinuate itself into the popular social media craze. Calling it a "conversation" makes it sound benign and implies that it is consensual.

Yep yep yep.

Still, I do think there's a place for talking to customers that PR people don't get because they are stuck thinking in terms of image. I don't think people want to talk about a marketing slogan like Microsoft's and Federated Media's dumb "People Ready" campaign where they asked for reactions to top bloggers' takes on the slogan. That's pretty much having a conversation about nothing.

Online types do like to get into the nitty-gritty of products, and that makes you think the conversation might better be taking place in the customer service arena. Let people talk to product managers and developers and designers. Leave the PR types -- with their exclamation points and "lively language" and their messages -- right out of it.

Update
Bonus links: Doc Searls, a Cluetrain brother, brings the
marketing conversation topic up to date. Also check out this other great post from Doc on NYTimes Select, the Times' paywalled service that came down this week. He quotes from one of David Weinberger's chapters in The Cluetrain Manifesto. So amazing how well the ideas in that book have held up, but then when it came out it just felt so true, I'm not surprised it's endured.

Tara Hunt got some serious pushback on her new Pinko Marketing idea.

I get and admire what seems to be a desire to be constructively outrageous and "out there." But, like Jeneane Sessum, I struggle to persuade mainstream business types to look past the countercultural tone of Cluetrain, or I try to help them tune into it. Tara's hook makes my work harder, so I'm glad she is rethinking, listening to her readers, and so willing to walk her talk on the community invovlement stuff.

At the same time I don't like to see bubbles burst. And I really don't like to see "out there" concepts watered down. Sometimes it's better to start from scratch with a new rallying point.

This concept certainly is provocative and attention-getting. Something about it is a little off the mark, though. I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm thinking the same spirit that made Cluetrain authentic, because it was written by people who really did the sixties, can't as authentically be picked up by someone who buys in but didn't live it?

Couple days ago, Dave Winer made friends with a bunch of women by saying he was tired of people talking about how their mother wouldn't understand something.

In Philadelphia (the movie), the Denzel Washington character said "Explain it to me like I'm a 4-year-old." That might be a substitute for using "your mother" as the lowest common denominator user.

Anyway, sometimes I think too much is made of dumbing things down. It may not be just women of a certain age who are not respected by some confident young purveyors of technology tools. If they're thinking "we have to make this idiot-proof," aren't they thinking that their audience is the hoi polloi, the great unwashed?

I've been around that attitude in companies and organizations, and it makes me uncomfortable to hear employees disrespecting customers -- the source of their income, and their ultimate boss. I worry that the attitude may subsciously creep into dealings with customers or tend to dictate disrespectful strategies in approaches to them.

People will rise to the level of expectations of them. You shouldn't drag the majority down to the level of the least aware. It's insulting.

Here's a post from almost a year ago that tells about dumbing down instructions on the web.

I'm not saying you shouldn't write carefully, and you shouldn't make things as clear as they can be. But too often you get one or two complaints and you are tempted to change things to make sure everybody gets it.

Take the person in the linked post who was all up in arms on receiving a mailing list subscription confirmation. She thought I was trying to trick her into buying a magazine subscription. In the end there were more than 2,000 people on that list of community planners of local National Safety Month events. I should use this one paranoid, irritated user as the model for dealing with all the others? I don't think so!

Steve Newson's take on the creation story is funny, and I'm sure that Microsoft will put RSS into the mainstream. I'd not so sure it follows that Cluetrain culture will pervade big business culture. I think it's more likely that business and miscreants will try to co-opt RSS.